Thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I couldn’t agree more. I believe in my early twenties I resolved my traumas unknowingly with psilocybin and time in nature. My mindset was curiosity and resolve and the set and setting were peaceful. 20 years later, I am thrilled to see the research support this, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to legally access it soon.
I have often thought that up until the early 1900s in the USA, this was medicine for mankind worldwide. A religion came through and banned medicine that enhances consciousness while making alcohol legal, which can be argued that it lowers consciousness. Will we be able to correct course?
Thanks, Chris! Really appreciate you taking a listen. I couldn't agree more that the re-emergence of this research is exciting - and overdue. I really hope we don't repeat the messaging mishaps of the 1960s ... it's about time we offer people suffering with addiction, PTSD, depression, anxiety something more nuanced than SSRIs (which are wonderful but are somewhat blunt instruments). Let's hope we do it right this time!
Agreed. That and let the DSM6 cover what overt and covert narcissistic abuse does to people, and find a way to get those abusers into therapy, rather than making all of us adapt our existence to them.
I have a curious question, perhaps you could float it to these doctors. I have seen instances where someone I believe might have a narcissistic imbalance or NPD mention they took psilocybin, but didn’t enjoy it or had a “bas trip.” It’s just one of those, I notice a potential pattern things, but could be nothing. I’d be curious to know, if they have any data on this. I feel like it might reflect, because of the ego.
It’s such an interesting question - whether or not the transient disintegration of ego due to psychedelics would reset or potentially exacerbate someone’s personality disorder. My gut instinct is this: to the extent personality disorders often stem from attachment issues in childhood, they might get better in the person who is open to the idea of reframing their narratives… but for the person who is closed off to the idea (subconsciously or consciously) it might be a bad time. I will ask the experts, though, and let you know what I find out!
Would love to know what you find. It’s just a hunch that a bad experience might be related to a strong defensive mechanism of a very egocentric personality. Would be cool to see a study on this. NPD vs Control, positive or negative experience outcome.
When I was an oncology patient of Dr. Agrawal, we spoke many times of holistic health, our mutual conviction that holism, not merely specialization, is the optimum road to health, not the absence if dis-ease, but the path to health. The knowledge,compassion,conviction and unceasing energy and intellectual curiosity he brings is a huge gift to the field of genuine health CARE thus to all of us. I admire and esteem you all for your taking the personal and professional risks required in order to benefit us, the humans you seek to guide and assist in a meaningful partnership. Thank you, Dr. McBride for making this discussion happen and making it available. And congratulations to you on your newest change in your own professional life. All best wish to you in your new practice.
Wow what an amazing thing to have had Dr. Agrawal as your oncologist. He is truly a unique and special human being. Thank you for the feedback, Ellen. You are always so thoughtful and kind … I really appreciate your continued support and readership :)
I can’t wait to listen as my brother has found help with MDMA. I tried a Ketamine treatment for my anxiety and it unleashed some serious pain( I stopped) and I have walked through it with the help of therapy. I have read that the MDMA is more tolerable. Thank you for sharing this!
Yes and we need to have qualified doctors researching and helping educate and ADVOCATE! So grateful for dr’s who are, which is why your podcast is so important! My brother had success with professional guided MDMA! Our family of origin trauma/alcoholism was rough AND we were so blessed to have access to mental healthcare, but insurance covers zero and that must change.
I have so many take aways from this podcast. I agree with other comments made, it was a very healing talk, especially, appreciated the outlook of not pathologizing long-term trauma symptoms, like anxiety and depression. This was an exceptionally well presented podcast by all 3 of you, the host and the two presenters. I read Michael Pollen’s book on How to Change your Mind, many years ago and hoped that psychedelics would one day be focused on in healing both the body/mind. We all crave for a healing therapeutic environment of trust and safety and resolutions. These two physicians who have changed their scope of practice and created SunStone Therapies are to be greatly admired and I wish them all the best in their endeavors now and in the future.
I am a clinician with experiences of traumatic losses myself. While I might not refer a client or participate myself in MDMA trials, this talk was very healing in not pathologizing long-term trauma symptoms and focusing on the healing therapeutic environment that encompasses trust, safety, and holding. This was a top-notch talk for those of us who heal and hope to be healed.
This was a great listen, thank you. I especially look forward to the day when psychedelic therapies are more widely available to people with life-limiting illnesses (safe containers and support post-treatment being key, of course). My own experiences with plant medicines have been absolutely key in making my relationship to mortality a healthier one. There’s huge potential here (and, frighteningly, huge potential for damage to be done if / when it’s not done ‘right’). I also have concerns regarding some of the indigenous cultures whose sacramental use of plant medicines is being effected by the surge of their use in the west, and that not enough attention is being given to the threats that some of these tribes face, or to the wisdom that they have to offer after working with these medicines for centuries.
Honestly, so many of the clinical trials in this space are funded by companies trying to cash in on psychedelics. It gives me pause that they are pushing to get these to market too quickly. The FDA is no longer concerned with efficacy, either (see recent aduhelm Alzheimer’s drug approval).
And Peter Thiel is backing Compass Pathways, in fact, and they are trying to patent psilocybin so no one else can use it. Ridiculous. Corporate greed is ruining healthcare.
Thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I couldn’t agree more. I believe in my early twenties I resolved my traumas unknowingly with psilocybin and time in nature. My mindset was curiosity and resolve and the set and setting were peaceful. 20 years later, I am thrilled to see the research support this, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to legally access it soon.
I have often thought that up until the early 1900s in the USA, this was medicine for mankind worldwide. A religion came through and banned medicine that enhances consciousness while making alcohol legal, which can be argued that it lowers consciousness. Will we be able to correct course?
Thanks, Chris! Really appreciate you taking a listen. I couldn't agree more that the re-emergence of this research is exciting - and overdue. I really hope we don't repeat the messaging mishaps of the 1960s ... it's about time we offer people suffering with addiction, PTSD, depression, anxiety something more nuanced than SSRIs (which are wonderful but are somewhat blunt instruments). Let's hope we do it right this time!
Agreed. That and let the DSM6 cover what overt and covert narcissistic abuse does to people, and find a way to get those abusers into therapy, rather than making all of us adapt our existence to them.
I have a curious question, perhaps you could float it to these doctors. I have seen instances where someone I believe might have a narcissistic imbalance or NPD mention they took psilocybin, but didn’t enjoy it or had a “bas trip.” It’s just one of those, I notice a potential pattern things, but could be nothing. I’d be curious to know, if they have any data on this. I feel like it might reflect, because of the ego.
It’s such an interesting question - whether or not the transient disintegration of ego due to psychedelics would reset or potentially exacerbate someone’s personality disorder. My gut instinct is this: to the extent personality disorders often stem from attachment issues in childhood, they might get better in the person who is open to the idea of reframing their narratives… but for the person who is closed off to the idea (subconsciously or consciously) it might be a bad time. I will ask the experts, though, and let you know what I find out!
Would love to know what you find. It’s just a hunch that a bad experience might be related to a strong defensive mechanism of a very egocentric personality. Would be cool to see a study on this. NPD vs Control, positive or negative experience outcome.
When I was an oncology patient of Dr. Agrawal, we spoke many times of holistic health, our mutual conviction that holism, not merely specialization, is the optimum road to health, not the absence if dis-ease, but the path to health. The knowledge,compassion,conviction and unceasing energy and intellectual curiosity he brings is a huge gift to the field of genuine health CARE thus to all of us. I admire and esteem you all for your taking the personal and professional risks required in order to benefit us, the humans you seek to guide and assist in a meaningful partnership. Thank you, Dr. McBride for making this discussion happen and making it available. And congratulations to you on your newest change in your own professional life. All best wish to you in your new practice.
Wow what an amazing thing to have had Dr. Agrawal as your oncologist. He is truly a unique and special human being. Thank you for the feedback, Ellen. You are always so thoughtful and kind … I really appreciate your continued support and readership :)
I can’t wait to listen as my brother has found help with MDMA. I tried a Ketamine treatment for my anxiety and it unleashed some serious pain( I stopped) and I have walked through it with the help of therapy. I have read that the MDMA is more tolerable. Thank you for sharing this!
Yes, these medications are not a panacea and certainly can do harm … I am glad to hear you have help in other ways :)
Yes and we need to have qualified doctors researching and helping educate and ADVOCATE! So grateful for dr’s who are, which is why your podcast is so important! My brother had success with professional guided MDMA! Our family of origin trauma/alcoholism was rough AND we were so blessed to have access to mental healthcare, but insurance covers zero and that must change.
I have so many take aways from this podcast. I agree with other comments made, it was a very healing talk, especially, appreciated the outlook of not pathologizing long-term trauma symptoms, like anxiety and depression. This was an exceptionally well presented podcast by all 3 of you, the host and the two presenters. I read Michael Pollen’s book on How to Change your Mind, many years ago and hoped that psychedelics would one day be focused on in healing both the body/mind. We all crave for a healing therapeutic environment of trust and safety and resolutions. These two physicians who have changed their scope of practice and created SunStone Therapies are to be greatly admired and I wish them all the best in their endeavors now and in the future.
Thank you so much, Jan! I am glad you appreciated it as much as I enjoyed recording it! There is so much hope on the horizon re: mental health care.
I am a clinician with experiences of traumatic losses myself. While I might not refer a client or participate myself in MDMA trials, this talk was very healing in not pathologizing long-term trauma symptoms and focusing on the healing therapeutic environment that encompasses trust, safety, and holding. This was a top-notch talk for those of us who heal and hope to be healed.
Thanks, Marja! I appreciate the feedback!
This was a great listen, thank you. I especially look forward to the day when psychedelic therapies are more widely available to people with life-limiting illnesses (safe containers and support post-treatment being key, of course). My own experiences with plant medicines have been absolutely key in making my relationship to mortality a healthier one. There’s huge potential here (and, frighteningly, huge potential for damage to be done if / when it’s not done ‘right’). I also have concerns regarding some of the indigenous cultures whose sacramental use of plant medicines is being effected by the surge of their use in the west, and that not enough attention is being given to the threats that some of these tribes face, or to the wisdom that they have to offer after working with these medicines for centuries.
Honestly, so many of the clinical trials in this space are funded by companies trying to cash in on psychedelics. It gives me pause that they are pushing to get these to market too quickly. The FDA is no longer concerned with efficacy, either (see recent aduhelm Alzheimer’s drug approval).
And Peter Thiel is backing Compass Pathways, in fact, and they are trying to patent psilocybin so no one else can use it. Ridiculous. Corporate greed is ruining healthcare.
And just to be clear, looks like Sunstone is testing Comp360…